Whatfinger Startup And Small Business
    What's Hot

    Is Grok 4 Worth $300? I Tested 9 AI Agents to Find Out

    July 15, 2025

    It Worked For Batman..

    July 15, 2025

    Why This Genius Business Idea Could Make Millions

    July 15, 2025
    Whatfinger News Headlines

    Is Grok 4 Worth $300? I Tested 9 AI Agents to Find Out

    July 15, 2025

    It Worked For Batman..

    July 15, 2025

    Why This Genius Business Idea Could Make Millions

    July 15, 2025

    John Jumper: AlphaFold and the Future of Science

    July 15, 2025

    What It’s Really Like to Be a Solo Founder | THE PAIN & REWARD

    July 15, 2025

    “I Have $10K..”

    July 14, 2025

    Which AI tools should you use? (Claude Code, Bolt, n8n, etc)

    July 14, 2025

    Is $100M Enough?

    July 14, 2025
    Facebook Twitter Instagram
    Tuesday, July 15
    • Whatfinger®
    • Breaking
    • Videos
    • Fast Clips
    • Entertainment
    • Military
    • Sports
    • Humor
    • Money
    • Daily List
    • World
    • Crazy Clips
    • Daily Paper
    • Sci-Tech
    • Top 3
    • Choice Clips
    • About
    • Retirement
    Whatfinger Startup And Small BusinessWhatfinger Startup And Small Business
    Whatfinger Startup And Small Business
    Home » Notion’s lost years, near collapse during COVID, staying small to move fast, building horizontal

    Notion’s lost years, near collapse during COVID, staying small to move fast, building horizontal

    webmasterBy webmasterMarch 6, 2025 All Videos 3 Mins Read
    Share
    Facebook Twitter LinkedIn Pinterest Email

    Ivan Zhao is the co-founder and CEO of Notion. Ivan shares the untold story of Notion, from nearly running out of database space during Covid to finding product-market fit after several “lost years,” and the hard-won lessons along the way.

    What you’ll learn:
    1. Why you sometimes need to “hide your vision” behind something people actually want—what Ivan calls “sugar-coating the broccoli”
    2. How Ivan and his co-founder persevered through multiple product resets and complete code rewrites
    3. Why Notion prioritized systems over headcount, keeping the team small and focused even at scale
    4. Why Ivan believes in craft and values as the foundation for product development, balancing technical excellence with aesthetic sensibility
    5. The surprising story of how Notion nearly collapsed during Covid when their single database almost ran out of space with only weeks to spare
    6. Community-led growth tactics
    7. Ivan’s unique journey from a small town in China
    8. Much more

    —

    Brought to you by:
    • Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments: https://www.geteppo.com/
    • Airtable ProductCentral—Launch to new heights with a unified system for product development: https://www.airtable.com/lenny
    • Sinch—Build messaging, email, and calling into your product: https://sinch.com/lenny

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-notion-ivan-zhao

    Where to find Ivan Zhao:
    • X: https://x.com/ivanhzhao
    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivanhzhao/

    Where to find Lenny:
    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:
    (00:00) Introduction to Ivan Zhao
    (04:41) Ivan’s early life and education
    (07:46) Discovering the vision for Notion
    (10:49) The lost years of Notion
    (13:56) Rebuilding and perseverance
    (17:14) Layoffs and company morale
    (18:53) Advice for startup founders
    (25:08) Product-market fit
    (29:56) Staying lean and efficient
    (34:27) Creating a unique office culture
    (37:20) Craft and values: the foundation of Notion’s philosophy
    (38:44) Navigating tradeoffs in product and business building
    (41:24) Leadership and personal growth
    (49:11) Challenges and crises: lessons from Notion’s journey
    (51:08) Building horizontal software: joys and pains
    (01:02:40) Philosophy of tools and human potential
    (01:06:17) Lightning round and final thoughts

    Referenced:
    • Ürümqi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi
    • Notion: https://www.notion.com/
    • SpongeBob SquarePants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpongeBob_SquarePants
    • Augmenting Human Intellect: https://web.stanford.edu/class/history34q/readings/Engelbart/Engelbart_AugmentIntellect.html
    • Alan Kay: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Kay
    • Ted Nelson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Nelson
    • Steve Jobs on Why Computers Are Like a Bicycle for the Mind (1990): https://www.themarginalian.org/2011/12/21/steve-jobs-bicycle-for-the-mind-1990/
    • Xerox Alto: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto
    • React: https://react.dev/
    • Simon Last on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-last-41404140/
    • Magna-Tiles: https://www.magnatiles.com/
    • Design on a deadline: How Notion pulled itself back from the brink of failure: https://www.figma.com/blog/design-on-a-deadline-how-notion-pulled-itself-back-from-the-brink-of-failure/
    • Bryan Johnson on X: https://x.com/bryan_johnson
    • Tobi Lütke’s leadership playbook: Playing infinite games, operating from first principles, and maximizing human potential (founder and CEO of Shopify): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/tobi-lutkes-leadership-playbook
    • Smalltalk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smalltalk#:
    • Lisp: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_(programming_language)
    • DeepSeek: https://www.deepseek.com/
    • Shana Fisher: https://www.crunchbase.com/person/shana-fisher
    • LAMY 2000 fountain pens: https://www.jetpens.com/LAMY-2000-Fountain-Pens/
    • Macintosh 128K: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_128K
    • Toshiba rice cooker: https://www.toshiba-lifestyle.com/us/cooking-appliances/rice-cooker
    • Transistor radio: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor_radio
    • Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
    • Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/
    • HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/
    • Zendesk: https://www.zendesk.com/
    • Misattributed McLuhan quote: https://mcluhangalaxy.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/we-shape-our-tools-and-thereafter-our-tools-shape-us/
    • Phin Barnes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phineasbarnes/
    • Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/
    • Pablo Picasso quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/629531-good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal#:~

    Recommended book:
    • The Romance of the Three Kingdoms: https://www.amazon.com/Romance-Three-Kingdoms-Luo-Guanzhong/dp/024133277X

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

    webmaster

    Keep Reading

    Is Grok 4 Worth $300? I Tested 9 AI Agents to Find Out

    It Worked For Batman..

    Why This Genius Business Idea Could Make Millions

    John Jumper: AlphaFold and the Future of Science

    What It’s Really Like to Be a Solo Founder | THE PAIN & REWARD

    “I Have $10K..”

    Add A Comment

    Leave A Reply Cancel Reply

    Latest Featured Stories

    Is Grok 4 Worth $300? I Tested 9 AI Agents to Find Out

    July 15, 2025

    It Worked For Batman..

    July 15, 2025

    Why This Genius Business Idea Could Make Millions

    July 15, 2025

    John Jumper: AlphaFold and the Future of Science

    July 15, 2025

    What It’s Really Like to Be a Solo Founder | THE PAIN & REWARD

    July 15, 2025

    “I Have $10K..”

    July 14, 2025

    Which AI tools should you use? (Claude Code, Bolt, n8n, etc)

    July 14, 2025

    Is $100M Enough?

    July 14, 2025

    Trump Retaliates Against BRICS Plan to Replace US Dollar

    July 14, 2025

    Should You Wait To Date?

    July 14, 2025

    It’s Not As Hard As You Think

    July 13, 2025

    The Best Way To Propose?

    July 13, 2025

    Running With Larger And Larger Versions Of My Book

    July 13, 2025

    Rapidly test and validate any startup idea with the 2-day Foundation Sprint

    July 13, 2025

    The AI Automation Agency Journey Explained (3 Key Phases)

    July 12, 2025

    Go Do Something

    July 12, 2025

    Price Your Upsells Like This

    July 12, 2025

    How Much Money Is Enough?

    July 12, 2025

    I Built a General AI Agent After School at Age 13 | Flowe AI, Michael Goldstein

    July 12, 2025

    10 Eco Friendly Manufacturing Business Ideas in 2025

    July 12, 2025

    You Don’t Need A “Marketing Budget” If You Master This

    July 11, 2025

    You Have To Be The Exception

    July 11, 2025

    Life Was So “Chill”

    July 11, 2025

    Trump Tariffs Escalate with August 1st Deadline

    July 11, 2025

    Why You Can’t Find Love (and love people who don’t love you back)

    July 11, 2025

    Aravind Srinivas: The Race to Build the AI Browser of the Future

    July 11, 2025

    7 AI Startup Ideas To Start In Your 20s

    July 11, 2025

    I Did 100 Math Problems For 4 Months

    July 10, 2025

    One Of My Favourite Business Models

    July 10, 2025

    Get In Shape While You Can

    July 10, 2025

    Andrew Ng: Building Faster with AI

    July 10, 2025

    How these 4 guys made billions with a dating app

    July 10, 2025

    The Only 3 Ways To Get More Customers

    July 9, 2025

    Please Say “No”

    July 9, 2025

    I’m REVEALING ALL the Vibe Marketing Secrets (NO Gatekeeping)

    July 9, 2025

    Stop Playing Business on Hard Mode, Here’s The Cheat Code

    July 9, 2025

    Why I’m Investing in GigaStar — Before It Goes Mainstream

    July 9, 2025

    How this dumb doll makes $2M per day

    July 9, 2025

    Boring Work Pays The Best

    July 9, 2025

    How to Handle Business Stress and Make More Money

    July 9, 2025
    Whatfinger News – The Conservative Alternative To the Drudge Report – CLICK BELOW
    More news daily than any other news site on Earth. All sources, all on one page! BAM! There can be ONLY one… CLICK BELOW

    Type above and press Enter to search. Press Esc to cancel.