Whatfinger Startup And Small Business
    What's Hot

    Don’t Take Weekends Off

    July 1, 2025

    Fei-Fei Li: Spatial Intelligence is the Next Frontier in AI

    July 1, 2025

    What is red teaming

    July 1, 2025
    Whatfinger News Headlines

    Don’t Take Weekends Off

    July 1, 2025

    Fei-Fei Li: Spatial Intelligence is the Next Frontier in AI

    July 1, 2025

    What is red teaming

    July 1, 2025

    Who’s More Likely To Succeed?

    June 30, 2025

    Learn No-Code AI Automation in 100 Minutes (Full Course)

    June 30, 2025

    Stop Fixing Today’s AI | The $3B Windsurf Story – Varun Mohan, Co-Founder&CEO

    June 30, 2025

    AI for Scientific Discovery

    June 30, 2025

    Is It Worth $100,000?

    June 30, 2025
    Facebook Twitter Instagram
    Tuesday, July 1
    • Whatfinger®
    • Breaking
    • Videos
    • Fast Clips
    • Entertainment
    • Military
    • Sports
    • Humor
    • Money
    • Daily List
    • World
    • Crazy Clips
    • Daily Paper
    • Sci-Tech
    • Top 3
    • Choice Clips
    • About
    • Retirement
    Whatfinger Startup And Small BusinessWhatfinger Startup And Small Business
    Whatfinger Startup And Small Business
    Home » Notion’s lost years, near collapse during COVID, staying small to move fast, building horizontal

    Notion’s lost years, near collapse during COVID, staying small to move fast, building horizontal

    webmasterBy webmasterMarch 6, 2025 All Videos 3 Mins Read
    Share
    Facebook Twitter LinkedIn Pinterest Email

    Ivan Zhao is the co-founder and CEO of Notion. Ivan shares the untold story of Notion, from nearly running out of database space during Covid to finding product-market fit after several “lost years,” and the hard-won lessons along the way.

    What you’ll learn:
    1. Why you sometimes need to “hide your vision” behind something people actually want—what Ivan calls “sugar-coating the broccoli”
    2. How Ivan and his co-founder persevered through multiple product resets and complete code rewrites
    3. Why Notion prioritized systems over headcount, keeping the team small and focused even at scale
    4. Why Ivan believes in craft and values as the foundation for product development, balancing technical excellence with aesthetic sensibility
    5. The surprising story of how Notion nearly collapsed during Covid when their single database almost ran out of space with only weeks to spare
    6. Community-led growth tactics
    7. Ivan’s unique journey from a small town in China
    8. Much more

    —

    Brought to you by:
    • Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments: https://www.geteppo.com/
    • Airtable ProductCentral—Launch to new heights with a unified system for product development: https://www.airtable.com/lenny
    • Sinch—Build messaging, email, and calling into your product: https://sinch.com/lenny

    Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-notion-ivan-zhao

    Where to find Ivan Zhao:
    • X: https://x.com/ivanhzhao
    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ivanhzhao/

    Where to find Lenny:
    • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com
    • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan
    • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/

    In this episode, we cover:
    (00:00) Introduction to Ivan Zhao
    (04:41) Ivan’s early life and education
    (07:46) Discovering the vision for Notion
    (10:49) The lost years of Notion
    (13:56) Rebuilding and perseverance
    (17:14) Layoffs and company morale
    (18:53) Advice for startup founders
    (25:08) Product-market fit
    (29:56) Staying lean and efficient
    (34:27) Creating a unique office culture
    (37:20) Craft and values: the foundation of Notion’s philosophy
    (38:44) Navigating tradeoffs in product and business building
    (41:24) Leadership and personal growth
    (49:11) Challenges and crises: lessons from Notion’s journey
    (51:08) Building horizontal software: joys and pains
    (01:02:40) Philosophy of tools and human potential
    (01:06:17) Lightning round and final thoughts

    Referenced:
    • Ürümqi: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%9Cr%C3%BCmqi
    • Notion: https://www.notion.com/
    • SpongeBob SquarePants: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpongeBob_SquarePants
    • Augmenting Human Intellect: https://web.stanford.edu/class/history34q/readings/Engelbart/Engelbart_AugmentIntellect.html
    • Alan Kay: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Kay
    • Ted Nelson: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Nelson
    • Steve Jobs on Why Computers Are Like a Bicycle for the Mind (1990): https://www.themarginalian.org/2011/12/21/steve-jobs-bicycle-for-the-mind-1990/
    • Xerox Alto: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto
    • React: https://react.dev/
    • Simon Last on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-last-41404140/
    • Magna-Tiles: https://www.magnatiles.com/
    • Design on a deadline: How Notion pulled itself back from the brink of failure: https://www.figma.com/blog/design-on-a-deadline-how-notion-pulled-itself-back-from-the-brink-of-failure/
    • Bryan Johnson on X: https://x.com/bryan_johnson
    • Tobi Lütke’s leadership playbook: Playing infinite games, operating from first principles, and maximizing human potential (founder and CEO of Shopify): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/tobi-lutkes-leadership-playbook
    • Smalltalk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smalltalk#:
    • Lisp: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisp_(programming_language)
    • DeepSeek: https://www.deepseek.com/
    • Shana Fisher: https://www.crunchbase.com/person/shana-fisher
    • LAMY 2000 fountain pens: https://www.jetpens.com/LAMY-2000-Fountain-Pens/
    • Macintosh 128K: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_128K
    • Toshiba rice cooker: https://www.toshiba-lifestyle.com/us/cooking-appliances/rice-cooker
    • Transistor radio: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor_radio
    • Jira: https://www.atlassian.com/software/jira
    • Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/
    • HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/
    • Zendesk: https://www.zendesk.com/
    • Misattributed McLuhan quote: https://mcluhangalaxy.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/we-shape-our-tools-and-thereafter-our-tools-shape-us/
    • Phin Barnes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phineasbarnes/
    • Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/
    • Pablo Picasso quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/629531-good-artists-copy-great-artists-steal#:~

    Recommended book:
    • The Romance of the Three Kingdoms: https://www.amazon.com/Romance-Three-Kingdoms-Luo-Guanzhong/dp/024133277X

    Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.

    Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.

    webmaster

    Keep Reading

    Don’t Take Weekends Off

    Fei-Fei Li: Spatial Intelligence is the Next Frontier in AI

    What is red teaming

    Who’s More Likely To Succeed?

    Learn No-Code AI Automation in 100 Minutes (Full Course)

    Stop Fixing Today’s AI | The $3B Windsurf Story – Varun Mohan, Co-Founder&CEO

    Add A Comment

    Leave A Reply Cancel Reply

    Latest Featured Stories

    Don’t Take Weekends Off

    July 1, 2025

    Fei-Fei Li: Spatial Intelligence is the Next Frontier in AI

    July 1, 2025

    What is red teaming

    July 1, 2025

    Who’s More Likely To Succeed?

    June 30, 2025

    Learn No-Code AI Automation in 100 Minutes (Full Course)

    June 30, 2025

    Stop Fixing Today’s AI | The $3B Windsurf Story – Varun Mohan, Co-Founder&CEO

    June 30, 2025

    AI for Scientific Discovery

    June 30, 2025

    Is It Worth $100,000?

    June 30, 2025

    Cursor + Claude Code is INSANE (Vibe Marketing Tutorial)

    June 30, 2025

    Trump vs Musk: The Most INSANE Feud Ever

    June 30, 2025

    Trump’s New Tax Cuts to Pass This Week: Final Details Revealed

    June 30, 2025

    I Turned $1M into $2.3B (Then Blew It Up and Rebuilt)

    June 30, 2025

    I Pressed the Reset Button… and Made $100 Million!

    June 30, 2025

    Cheap Promotion Hack

    June 30, 2025

    9 Genius Ways To Make Money With Digital Products FROM DAY 1

    June 30, 2025

    You’ll Regret Starting a Startup Without THIS Financial Clarity

    June 30, 2025

    The $200 Prada Paperclip

    June 29, 2025

    Raise. Your. Price.

    June 29, 2025

    Go Be In A Bad Mood

    June 29, 2025

    Naming expert shares process for creating billion-dollar brands: Vercel, Azure, Windsurf, Sonos

    June 29, 2025

    His Lawyer Apologized For Him

    June 28, 2025

    Winners KNOW They’re Gonna Win

    June 28, 2025

    If you’re ambitious and in your 20s or 30s, please watch this.

    June 28, 2025

    When Are You Rich?

    June 28, 2025

    How To Be In The Top 1%

    June 28, 2025

    When To Cut A Friend?

    June 27, 2025

    Stock Market Soars — Rate Cuts and Easy Money Coming Soon

    June 27, 2025

    He Bought a Local Newspaper… Now He Makes $600K/YR

    June 27, 2025

    Legendary Consumer VC Predicts The Future Of AI Products

    June 27, 2025

    How Figma’s First Marketer Built the World’s Most Beloved Product l Claire Butler & Corey Lee

    June 27, 2025

    25 BEST BUSINESS IDEAS IN DUBAI 2025 LOW INVESTMENT

    June 27, 2025

    The Perfect Price To Make The Most Money

    June 26, 2025

    6 Ways To Become Who You Want

    June 26, 2025

    “Passive Income” Takes Time

    June 26, 2025

    How This College Dropout Built a $30B+ Business

    June 26, 2025

    It’s Not About The Weight On The Bar

    June 26, 2025

    Do Married Men Make More Money?

    June 25, 2025

    When Your Friends Don’t Cheer For You

    June 25, 2025

    Satya Nadella: Microsoft’s AI Bets, Hyperscaling, Quantum Computing Breakthroughs

    June 25, 2025

    AI is replacing AI Agencies… Now what?

    June 25, 2025
    Whatfinger News – The Conservative Alternative To the Drudge Report – CLICK BELOW
    More news daily than any other news site on Earth. All sources, all on one page! BAM! There can be ONLY one… CLICK BELOW

    Type above and press Enter to search. Press Esc to cancel.